UAS News Podcast — 2014-07-24
Transcript
Hello and welcome to the next installment of the SQS News Podcast Series where we interview newsmakers and discuss the news and applications relevant to the global unmanned technology community. This week's program, Unmanned Oklahoma. Before we bring on our guest, I'd like to introduce myself. I'm your humble program host, Mr.
Patrick Egan. And I will say our customary hello and welcome to the best co-host and UAS Inspector Award winner, Mr. Gene Robinson. Well, hello, Patrick.
I don't know how you expect me to be humble after all that. Hello, and I'm hoping that you're doing well on your end. Doing good. I feel really busy, lots going on.
And that leads us to our usual first segment question is, what news stories caught your attention this week? Again, you were in a few news stories, and I know we talked a little earlier this morning about the piece of news that came out, and I think your plans were a little steamed. So, people will launch into that one. I don't know.
Go ahead. Yeah, you know, the executive order thing has been bandied about quite a bit here recently in the media. And you know, you never really think about it too much because an executive order doesn't seem to affect you in one way or the other. And by golly, this one landed right square in our laps.
And if anybody has anything to do with unmanned aircraft or the dreaded clones as they say, this one is going to affect you, especially if you're a private operator, because now we've got the administration assigning yet another very large government entity to determine what the privacy requirements will be for drone aircraft. And as you and I both know, we've served on committees, and we've volunteered with many of these groups. And these things can take years to develop. It takes them forever just to assemble who's going to be on the committee, much less get anything done.
And to me, this is another delaying tactic, or could be utilized as another delaying tactic to keep unmanned aircraft out of the naps. And it's just making me nuts at how they excel at finding ways to slow the process down. Yeah, it is frustrating. I read the article on that.
I think it was great. No. I think it's going to be another few wasted years of life on a committee with a government, let's say, body that really doesn't understand the technology, what we do, how we do it, et cetera, ad nauseum, kind of like the FAA and unmanned aircraft systems. Unfortunately, these are the roadblocks that they throw out there.
I try to remind people that most people are in business. When you're in business, there's kind of an efficiency thing. And most people that are serious and that are going to be in business and go out and do this are out there, and the clock is ticking. We're going to make money.
So really, I think that the people who are going to really have a privacy issue is probably, and I hate to call on this again, but the yahoo that buys some system on the Internet for $300 or whatever and goes out there and goes, it might be funny to peer over my neighbor's fence. Well, that might get you a sock in the nose or the eye or somewhere else. But I think that that will probably work itself out. Most people have already, your business practices, you don't want to create any trouble or problems for yourself, so you're going to operate in a responsible manner.
So I do think it might be something that's just going to add another layer or more time to us getting into the nest. Looks like I kind of agree with you on that one, Gene. Anything else get your attention?
Well, you know, I was in a couple of meetings yesterday with some municipality officials, and they were talking about how really we were in on the ground floor when we were talking about doing this 10 years ago. And it made me kind of laugh a little bit because it was their perspective, because there were people, you know, back in my era, you know, in Vietnam that were flying drones back then. And it's kind of like personal computers, I guess, when folks kind of look at drones now. And 10 years ago it was the ground floor, and it really wasn't.
But the perspective and the use of them has changed so dramatically that they're now in the modern vernacular. And, you know, hardly a day goes by when you don't hear a story about some sort of drone use. Well, that's pretty. I'm going to finish with that.
Well, I mean, it's grown so exponentially in the last few years. It looks to be here with us, and it's not going away. It is not going away, but I did notice something else interesting. And just another, you know, commentary on kind of what's going on in the ecosystem as it were.
You know, so we just had the special interpretation come out for Model Aircraft in the United States, which is very draconian. There's other stories that are starting to filter out, kind of from the community, about this. But I don't think people understand the ramifications. I really went down.
But interesting to note, I've gotten a few contacts with some of the major networks and newspapers and whatever else. And said, hey, you know, this might be a good story of how there's a little, let's say, collateral damage to the, let's say, hobbyist, the person that would go out and just fly out on the weekend or whatever. As far as I'm concerned, this kind of what's going on here. Now, those people have really got, I'm trying to think, since this is a family program, I have a good word for that.
But their hobby is going to change, even though the FAA repeatedly assured them that it wasn't going to change. Upshot on this is I can't get anyone or any interest in the story about the hobbyist. So it shows me that the way that the mainstream, let's say, society is viewing this is that all of the stuff is a drone. There is no hobbyist.
It's just the drone. You've got to watch out for the drone. We don't know exactly who is using it and what they're using it for and how they're using it. And I think that that kind of goes back into what you were talking about, this hyper evolution of application and how things are put in the air and fueled and used.
Yep, that's the first point. And we're all being lumped together, and that's unfortunate because it's just not the case. It is not the case. And again, I go back and I think, well, the people that are hobbyists or part of an association or a group or understand this or pilots or other people that understand the rules of the NAS and how to kind of be responsible.
A lot of what's happening is this, you know, some people call it the democratization of the technologies going out there that you can order them anywhere and go to the mall and buy them. I mean, I was at the state fair, you know, the guy had the booth and, you know, he was droning. You know, they had these those helicopters and quads with cameras on them. You know, Chinese knockoff, $150 systems, you know, technically, this is the drone, you know.
So kind of weird how that's all getting out there. Again, I think of it a lot like the CD radio thing in the 70s. You know, hey, wait a minute. What are you doing?
And it's too late. We got trucker movies out there, which reminds me too, it looks like someone's going to start a drone reality TV show. I nominated Eugene as a possible subject for the television program. You're so helpful, Patrick.
You know I've been on a couple of reality shows already and you know there is no such thing as a reality TV show. You sound jaded. I mean, it was a Bigfoot thing with that band. Did you have to bring that up?
You know, I like Bigfoot. Anyway, so I think that there's a few things that we could glean out of that. But the show would be interesting. I think we need to have somebody on there responsible.
So that's why I nominated you. All right. Well, anyway, so we've had an enjoyable chat, but that's pretty much our guest. And today's guest is the Oklahoma Secretary of Science and Technology, Dr.
Stephen Keeber. Hello, sir. Good morning to both of you. Nice to be here.
Well, it's finally nice to have you on the show. We've actually played, let's say, schedule tech for quite some time, trying to get you on here. So I'm glad to have you here. Possibly, Dr.
Keeber, you could introduce yourself to the UAS News Podcast audience. Give us a little bio and how you got involved with Unmanned Aircraft Systems. Well, for sure. As your introduction said, I'm a science and technology secretary here from the state of Oklahoma.
And in that capacity, one of my responsibilities is to develop the UAS industry within the state for the benefit of all different sectors of the state. I guess the way I got into this was when I became appointed as the secretary by Governor Fallon. Prior to that, my background is just in radiation, radiation detectors and sensors, so nothing to do with UAS. But this became a very important technology issue for the state, so I threw myself into it and here I am.
And I must say it's been terrifically enjoyable. I've really learned a lot from some terrific people. And I think this is a subject that is of such importance to the, not just our state, but the nation as a whole, that it's something that I'm very pleased to be a part of. Well, you won't get any disagreement from me.
I believe this technology is, it offers efficiency to a whole host of industries. But you said you were into radiation sensing. Now, of course, I'm sure you've thought about putting radiation sensors on drugs. Oh, indeed.
We have. I think the Fukushima tragedy a couple of years ago was a perfect example of how radiation detectors on UAS could be used very beneficially. You can't get people to get close to these high activity sources, so unmanned vehicles are the perfect way to go. Right.
And you know, that also ties into a talk with people a lot. I'm kind of an advocate of commercial space. I think there's a lot of opportunity in commercial space. And by talking to people about that, this is probably another radiation thing, because they say a lot of times, well, why would an unmanned systems guy be at a commercial space show?
And I say, well, you know, until we lick that radiation problem, a lot of things that go with deep space are going to be unmanned. But, you know, just saying, unless you come up with a track suit that reflects radiation. Actually, I've done quite a bit of work in space radiation too, for the very reason that you mentioned. Hey, are we, and I know we're getting a little off the track, but this is kind of a subject where you're an expert, but you know, the space thing, are we getting any closer to overcoming that problem?
Yes, we are, with new materials especially that will help protect the astronauts and with a little more knowledge about how radiation affects the human body, I think we will be able to overcome those issues. Excellent, because, you know, that's probably the main showstopper. Well, there's a few showstoppers, but that one's a pretty nasty bit of a showstopper. So that's encouraging to hear.
Well, you know, we were supposed to talk at Farnborough, and I had some logistical issues with parking everywhere. I went, no, I can't park here. And so I didn't, I wanted to make our appointment with someone else. But, you know, I had my own impressions about the Farnborough event, but I would, I'd like to hear some of your impressions.
I know you guys, you had the booth there. I did make it to the booth, and what were you hearing at Farnborough?
You know, it was an interesting show this year. The Farnborough and the Parisian shows have always been very exciting shows for us to attend. We've done that for the last four years. This one I detected to be a little different.
One of the big issues, the big differences that I saw is that I just felt the attendance was down. I don't know, I don't have numbers, so I can't quantify that for you, but especially on the first day, it just seemed that the show never really got started in some sense. We still managed to have some very good meetings, and indeed our schedules were back-to-back all the way through. But nevertheless, the excitement seemed to be down a notch.
I also noticed that the military presence was less than it has been in previous years, a lot to do with what's happening around the world at the moment. I noticed that there was a lot of discussion among US companies in particular about the sales for future years being primarily overseas. Now this is in aerospace in general. In UAS in particular, the big concern is why isn't the United States allowing commercial operations whereas the rest of the world is?
In fact, talking with my colleagues from other countries, some of them were really disparaging about the slowness of the United States. Well, you know, we don't disparage the FAA here at the UAS News Podcast. I have to agree with you that the mood in aviation is changing. I think everyone agrees that the future of aviation is unnamed.
I will say that the companies that I talk to that were, say, locals or from the UK, were very encouraged by CAA UK's, let's say, working with them, their integration after being a two-way street and the piece of news that they put out about the sub-20 kilos and whatever else, and this thing is not, you know, it was a pragmatic approach, and I've always said that about the CAA UK. They're very approachable. You know, okay, I mean, I talk to them about flying the 75-foot unmanned land at the Olympics, and they're like, okay, well, you know, come and talk to us.
Let's see your safety case. In the United States, the FAA would have just said, again, it's a family show. They would have said no. So everyone would have upbeat on that.
They were upbeat. Business is booming. We're hiring people. It's great.
The public is starting to realize the benefits of this technology, which I kind of expected. I will say, yes, the crowd was kind of down, and I also kind of think that we are, this is the unmanned aircraft thing, is kind of leaving maybe the, let's say, the major aerospace kind of Boeing, Airbus kind of world. Do you agree with that?
I do. I do. Every media interview that I had, which Oklahoma was there with StenSpree to talk about the aerospace industry in general in Oklahoma, but every media interview that I had, they only wanted to talk about one topic, and that was unmanned systems, and how we saw the industry developing, how we saw Oklahoma's role, what we saw as the major obstacles, et cetera, et cetera. They had the same conversations multiple times, but that was it.
That's all they wanted to know about. Well, that kind of segues into the next question here, and I wanted to talk about Oklahoma and unmanned systems. I mean, you have a very pro-UAS governor in Governor Mary Fowler, and I mean, you know, if you want to floor her out for Jerry Brown, no, I can't do that. I'm sure you guys want to keep her, but you know, what is, you know, I mean, what's behind this?
I know Oklahoma's been so unmanned systems, and maybe you could kind of give us the ethos of, you know, why this is. Yeah, well, when you look at the major industries within Oklahoma, you start out listing aerospace, of course. That's I think our third largest industry, but then the biggest industry is oil and gas and energy in general. Then we have agriculture.
Then not far behind is transportation, defense and security. And if you were to pick out the major industries that would benefit from the development of unmanned systems, you would pick out energy, agriculture, transportation, defense and security. In other words, this is a topic that would benefit all of our industry sectors, not to mention the fact that it's the fastest growing area within the aerospace sector. Anyway, so when you put those factors together, it's frankly a no-brainer that Oklahoma should be engaged in this development.
Now you add to that the fact that we have had education, training and R&D programs in unmanned aircraft since the mid-'90s. We've had an extensive program at Oklahoma State University developing the engineering aspects of these systems, training students, all of whom just get snapped up by the aerospace and unmanned system community. It's no problem with employment for them. So we've been doing that for such a long while that when it became, how can I say, popular, then it was obvious that Oklahoma needed to be at the forefront.
That's how it's happened and that's why over the last three, four years we've been really pushing it. Yeah, okay. So as you see it for, like you said, the industries in Oklahoma are kind of the low-hanging fruit, as it were, for unmanned aircraft systems. But you're also, I was going to ask that question if you were exporting it, but obviously it sounds like through the education system you are developing engineers and whatever that are already, let's say, ready to go in this field.
That's right. You know, and this is just an interesting, you know, to delve down some little ways away here in California. But, you know, I know you guys were a, let's say, proponent for the test center initiative and you guys didn't do the test center. Right.
So what's the go-forward plan on that? Well, an interesting part of that test site competition was that we had just, just before that was announced, just written our strategic plan for the development of the unmanned aerial systems sector in Oklahoma. And becoming one of those FAA test sites was never part of our plan. We had prior to that become a test site for the Department of Permanent Security.
So we are the RF federal UAS test site and so that's an active and ongoing program and we hope it will continue for several years yet. So the need to become an FAA test site was not really strong. Obviously we felt we could compete for it and we did. But our view of not getting it is that the bad news was that we didn't get selected.
But the good news is that we didn't get selected because it allows us to be more flexible and put our efforts and our focus on the applications and the education and training. Whereas we would have been perhaps tied a little too much into the development of the technologies for safe integration into the NERSC. One day we really will be able to operate commercially. That day will come and when it comes we want to be in the position that if you want to know how to do it, I'll tell Mr.
Plissken. So you're talking about at Fort Zill, the testing at Fort Zill, is that what you were referring to?
Indeed, we have been, that's what the DHS program has been, with a wonderful arrangement with the Secretary of the Army all the way down through Fort Zill who have been magnificent to work with. Now with a more recent development however is that we are indeed working with the FAA to extend the program into the NERSC. We've not got the final paperwork done yet for all of that, but we're excited by the progress and this is a three-way partnership, a collaboration between the State, the Department of Common Health and Security and the FAA.
And so you actually have a little bit of flexibility with the program at Fort Zill, is that what I'm getting here? And we are working, we've had to change the operational parameters that we had previously used. Previously through the agreement with the Army we have been able to operate there quite freely as long as our focus has been on issues of relevance to defense and security. So somebody for example wanted to test the delivery of a small package, to test crop spraying, that we couldn't have handled that, our agreement was defense and security related issues only.
But now the Department of Defense have changed the operational parameters a little and we'll still be able to operate, but we have had to do it through a different mechanism now and that if we are working for a DOD customer for example, that customer has to have an MOU with the Army to be able to operate in a restricted airspace. But this is all coincided with the intent and desire of the Department of Common Health
and Security to extend the program from the restricted airspace into the national airspace and we have a site located for that, and as I say we are working with the FAA to get that done.
Well that's excellent and it sounds like the S.C.O.S. broadened a little bit. We did have Dr. Appleby actually came and spoke at the first Small Enhanced Systems Business Expo.
Yes. And that was informative to see what they were doing there and talked about all of the aircraft that they were going to test and I guess they were trying to compile a list of different aircraft capabilities and applications and whatnot. Is that work still continuing?
Yes it is. In John's, John Appleby in his words, they were trying to develop a sort of consumer report on the different capabilities of different systems such that if for example a law enforcement agency or a fire department or any kind of first responder unit wished to purchase one of these systems they would be able to look at this online report and assess how the different systems behave under different circumstances and that was probably the goal of the program and still is. Well that's probably a good move because Gene and I kind of were talking about this morning too.
There's a lot of people that believe one drone does everything, which is not really the case. It's not the case. It's funny things we're running into with that. I don't know, could a million acres I want to survey.
Well you know you can't do that with a quadcopter. Well you could. Right. Just kind of take a little bit of time.
You'll have to re-charge a few batteries. And so are you, with all of this forward thinking, are you trying to attract businesses to move to Oklahoma that want to be in this field besides having a governor who's trying to make a business-friendly state?
I mean are people coming to Oklahoma? We're getting a lot of interest. There are several of the major manufacturers, not just in the UAS business, but in the aerospace business in general, who are locating parts of their operations in Oklahoma, but specifically in UAS. We have conversations all the while where people are looking at how this whole thing is developing.
As you know we're in a very strange situation here at the moment in that there's a lot of technology out there, a lot of capability, a lot of entrepreneurs ready and waiting to go to build businesses. And yet until we have rules and regulations that we know we have to operate within, then the market has not developed yet. And until there's a market it's hard to see how this whole thing is developing. So we are trying to position Oklahoma such that when that market does develop we would be a go-to state.
Excellent. And do you have a website where people can learn about what's going on in Oklahoma?
There are probably several websites that would cover the UAS, but the first website I would recommend would be our Department of Commerce website. I think you probably know where that is. Google is just Oklahoma Department of Commerce and that would set the market in the right direction. Excellent, excellent.
Well I'm glad that we finally got you on the show. It was worth all the scheduling to get you here. And you know maybe you're going to have to come out to the Small Unmanned Systems Business Expo next year and give us an update. So keep that in mind.
I would love to do that. All right, well let's keep that in mind for next year. Again, thanks so much for being on, Dr. McKeever.
We appreciate your insight. And Gene, thank you. I guess we'll see everyone next week. Very good.
It's been my pleasure.