sUAS News Podcast — 2015-01-21
Transcript
Hello everyone and welcome to the latest installment of the SUAS news podcast series where we interview the global unmanned technologies community. I'm your program host Patrick Egan and let's say hello and welcome to our co-host Mr. Gene Robinson. Hello Mr.
Egan, how are you sir? Little sick. You know I hate to say that but I am too so if we sound a little awful like we're in a pipe, cedar fever has struck here in the hill country and it has gotten everyone. I know it's crazy.
But you know soldiering through, what else are you going to do? You know, you got to go with it. So it's been a while since we had the podcast. People are like, oh you know, I mean I get lots of feedback from folks.
And you know, oh what about the podcast? And you know, I tell them, well I'm so busy I feel like Ryan Seacrest without the money. So we're trying. I'm trying to get this back going.
Hello and welcome to another episode of Drone TV. I'm just waiting up for the hard drive from Oslo, Norway which ought to be interesting. Coming back from the holidays, people are coming out of the woodwork. Things are happening.
Lots of action going on. It's just kind of hard to get it all together. Anyway, this week we're going to talk about the events and non-events of 2014 in what is aptly called the grind. And you know, a lot of things going on.
The AP just released a story this morning that I'm interviewed in and I put it out there on the Twitter and what not. Very hard to get a complex issue and break that down into digestible sound bites for the lay person, let alone people that know what's going on. I struggled with that. But, indeed.
Shulman's also on it and he gave an interview too. It was pretty good overall. I thought it was a good piece. But you guys will have to check that out.
We didn't catch your eyes lately here, Eagle Eye Robinson. Well, I've got to tell you that not only you have been videoed, but for our Canadian listeners up there on Discovery Channel tonight, you will see a segment that covers the positive use of unmanned aircraft in forensic anthropology. I know that some of the folks that may have been at the expo last year may have heard me talk about some of the things that we're doing with the San Marcos or Texas State University body farm. I know it's a bit macabre sounding, but you know, flying around over folks laying out there in the field.
But it's very interesting and it showcases the use of unmanned aircraft for a positive use. So I want to throw that out there to our Canadian listeners. Or if you're up north, pretty close to the border, you might be able to get that on Discovery Channel Canada. Cool.
Hopefully we'll get a link or something to that and we can tweet that out for people to see. It's always good to see professionals in the field. It is funny. I get comments all the time and I got a whole bunch of emails in my email box today.
A lot of these stories on, let's say, technology blogs about drones. And people are like, you know, these people are crazy. They don't know what they're talking about. Yeah, yeah, yes, that's very true.
I read these things. I just laugh. That's absurd. How, let's say, the disinformation that's going on out there and the conjecture about drones and what's legal and what isn't legal.
And we'll get into all of that. But really, it's just clickhounds. A lot of these people, I mean, drones are hot and these sites just get tons of clicks and they just write whatever. They don't know what they're talking about.
The other thing I've done is I've kind of fired up my drone dealer, the drone dealer account on Twitter where I could go over there and kind of, let's say, run free off the chain. I moved away from some of the stuff on, let's say, too much reality on the S.U.S. News Twitter account just so I could be a little bit freer. So if you don't have enough snark in your life, check out at the drone dealer on Twitter and you can get more snark.
Snark deficiency. All right, so there's lots of hearings going on. There's hearings today. We have some good people up there talking to Congress.
I don't know if you've been watching these. I guess it's going to happen in about an hour. I'm not really watching any of these. It almost makes me, I watch them and sometimes the people that are testifying, some of the folks, that makes me very frustrated with what's going on.
Your take, Gene. You know, having participated in some of those hearings and as well as they are orchestrated in the fact that you have to submit your, they'll submit you questions and you have to submit their answers before they were even considered using you, this thing is better orchestrated than a reality TV show. So, you know, it's kind of one of those things that I kind of tend to look at with a sideways glance. And may I add, almost as vacuous as the reality TV shows.
It really, it's just, God makes me sick. Anyway, I'm still in the union last night. I almost needed, I felt like, I don't want to get too political, but I almost felt like I had to break out the canoe to stay above the BS that was being thrown out there. But whatever.
I wanted to go along with it. There I was. Yeah, but I couldn't. You know, I didn't hear, you know, the thing about the drones and you did, maybe you could paraphrase, give us a little commentary on the State of the Union, Gene.
Well, we know that in the context of the military vein that Mr. President said that he would control technologies such as drones and make sure that they were, you know, maintained, you know, a tight rein, so to speak. And I understand that they're talking about military stuff, but you can bet your bottom dollar that that's going to come right back down to the very bottom of the civilian end of it as well. So I'm a little concerned about that statement.
So we'll just have to wait and see how that pans out. Well, that's interesting because I've been told on multiple occasions and we'll get into some of that, that I should be encouraged because the White House is going to say positive things about drones and positive things about the commercial use of drones. I will say that what I caught in the Kumbaya speech, I didn't hear anything about the president taking responsibility for the safety of the Nass. I did not hear that.
So not encouraged. Well, I mean, we've heard so many and I hate to get off on a political bent, but you know, we've heard a lot of things. We've heard a lot of things out of the administration that were going to be and are should be and that sort of thing. And it hasn't come to fruition.
So I guess I'm a little cynical about some of the things that could come out. I think you've been hanging out with me too long. Yeah, maybe so. That's probably rubbed off on me.
Yeah, well, you know, I was, you know, we'll see what happens. I don't know. I remain encouraged. The DHS UAS Summit.
I don't know if you got in on that call. I'm not really as a journalist, but to speak about it, I was shut out because I was a journalist and all of the representatives said that they would not speak if members of the media, even though it's a public hearing, if members of the media was there. The outrage that the lacking outrage is glaring. It's just, you know, since you can't speak, Patrick, let me because I'm not.
I'm just here talking on the radio with everybody else. The one thing that was brought up, a statement was made, and this is near and dear to my heart, and it was made by a legal beagle that apparently has some standing with the agency. And it was mentioned made that if private individual wants to go up and help law enforcement in a search and law enforcement is okay with it. Hey, it's okay.
Knock your lights out. There was a lot of, I'm going to say misinformation. I will say that okay, this is I'm going to take the journalism hat off and put on the American hat. I did not like there was a lawyer from the FAA who I brought the same person I don't know who wrote that seven page document, put it out there.
And basically what has happened, you know, again, the Constitution right out the window is anybody now flying a RC unman whatever you want to call it is now suspect. And they are suspect now in the eyes of the DOJ DHS federal police law enforcement, whatever else there was that. There was also pictures of commonly known aircraft that people are buying with mocked up C4 and other types of nefarious bombs and whatnot strapped to them that were ridiculous. And I got to tell you that a lot of people they had a lot of the manufacturers and whatever else had representatives in the room.
And nobody said a thing. It was a problem with that. Well, you know, I'm not there. I, you know, I thought about going to the meeting personally, but I'm getting out of the deal now where it's like, let's see, do I want to go and spend my money to defend an industry?
You know where I'm I don't I mean, or do I want to go on a family vacation this year? Family vacation one out. So I think that let's say another landmine was stepped on by the community. I just don't get it.
I got to tell you, you know, people are like, oh, you sound like you're a little, you know, down about the situation. I'm not dismayed. I'm alarmed. I mean, I will tell you now that in the hands of law enforcement, there are pictures of what most of this community flies with mocked up bombs on it.
And now with the edict put out by the FAA, you are a suspect. You know, there's really not even something you're not breaking any laws. You know, there's there's guidance. And and to further that, I don't mean to be alarmist or anything like that.
But to further that, there is the memo or the directive out now that your local law enforcement agency will act as an enforcement arm for the FAA or they would like you to. So that I've already spoken with some of the DSOs and folks around here on law enforcement and they looked at it and just kind of said, really?
Like, we'll do that right in between arresting criminals and chasing down bank robbers and stuff like that. We'll be right on it. Well, the thing that concerns me about this is drones are hot right now. It's a hot topic.
People used to be a walk down the street. Nobody gave me a second look. I walked out the other day. I got one of these unique Q 500s, which is actually not a bad bird.
And I'm taking it out. And now everybody looks at me. I get, you know, I don't want to, you know, housewives or whatever, people, kids, whoever people come up to me now and they want to see the drone. They know what a drone is.
I want to talk about it. I don't know the idea that all of a sudden I'm out in the park here, you know, or whatever. And I'm flying, you know, and Johnny Locke comes by and starts busting my hump and I'm not doing anything. So what's happening is the absurdity at the FAA laying out these edicts, you know, you're chilling my constitutional rights.
You know, where's the ACLU? They're talking about chilling my first First Amendment rights. It's totally absurd. The other thing I'm going to have to put out there is anybody flying anything on a string that's tethered kite balloon, whatever, for commercial purposes.
And this means you, you car salesman needs a commercial ticket. So basically, I don't agree with this, but this is where the nuttiness is going. Your mileage may vary. I just cannot believe and I'm going to get on a rant here and then people are all the money that these companies and people are throwing at this effort.
The attorneys and the rest of the, you know, lobbyists and all the rest of that stuff. Throwing the money away. That's all I see right now. Go ahead.
Well, one of the things that I wanted to bring up, you know, we tend to throw all these things out there that are kind of onerous and, you know, it kind of makes us sound like we're being cynics on the whole thing. But more than anything else, this is a cautionary tale for our listeners. This is more information for you guys that are out there flying in the field, both for fun and commercially to be aware of what could potentially occur when you're out there using the drone of your choice. So let's keep that in context, guys.
This is what we're trying to do. We're not trying to be a downer. We're not trying to, we're just trying to give you a heads up. Yes, we're trying to give you a heads up and actually even in in the past, and I haven't really gone public with this one, but basically during the arc, you know, and I didn't go public with it because I didn't want to reinforce anybody's ideas.
But basically during the arc, the ATO representative and you know her well said she's she's I think she was president of the Gene Robinson fan club for a while. I don't think Tim. Well, anyway, she says, basically, if you're not on a hobby field, you are not following the hobby rules. And this was part of the enforcement deal.
So anybody what that really meant to me was that anybody not flying on a field or other hobby sanctioned field is automatically suspect. Come full circle here now to 2015. And that is exactly what they did. You know, that's what you got.
Now, I'm just reading the quote here from the State of the Union address. You know, I will read it. The paragraph as Americans. This is the full excerpt here.
This is a quote as Americans. We respect human dignity, even when we're threatened, which is why I prohibited torture and work to make sure our use of new technology like drones is properly constrained. And, you know, next we go into anti semitism and, you know, some other things. I don't want to go into that.
But anyway, probably constrained. I'm not encouraged. I do not hear commercial drone in there. Again, I think our money is being wasted.
Anyway, that again, you know, you take other people's take on it. Maybe something else. I know people do have other take on that. But we'll leave that one for that ego.
Now we're going to move on to CES unless you had one other thing to say. I do. I have one other positive thing that I'd like to say is that as many of our listeners know, I was the pilot in command for a search that went on in Plano, Texas in September. And that was under the guidance of NIST, the National Institute of Standards and Technology.
And they came out or we completed a full report, a comprehensive report. And if you would like to see an example of how it's done, you can Google up NIST internal report 8033. That's NIST internal report 8033 and is titled Deployment of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles to Texas under an Emergency Certificate of Authorization. So it's kind of a good read, but I just wanted to throw it out there.
If you if you wanted to go look that up, you get read it and see how it's done. All right. That's good. You know, I think more positive information is a good thing to have.
So, okay. CES. CES. CES, you know, it's kind of confirms what I've been saying for a while about these drones being consumer electronics and not really there.
There's two different there's definitely two different groups. You have the FAA who thinks they're aircraft, which is a whole other debacle, you know, and then you have people who think they're consumer electronics. The section for unmanned systems at CES was just overrun. The booths were just chock full of people.
DJI booth was standing room only. Couldn't even get in there. My hat's off to the folks that were working that show. I mean, it was crazy, Gene.
It was just crazy. Everybody was in there. I mean, I saw the guy with the badge from Marsha Stewart Productions. You know, she's got a drone.
Everybody's in there. All the newsgroups, the stamp song, everybody. The videos, I took videos of the press conference and I took video of another panel discussion and they are at the S.U.S. News YouTube channel.
I could probably do on the panel discussion, I could probably do a 10,000 word dissertation. If I had time, I would do it. I think it would be very, let's say, tearing the misinformation, the stall, 10 years of no action. I mean, I sat there with it, holding back laughter the whole time.
I gave myself a headache with a smile. So it's not all downer stuff. And I will say, the other thing I want to say is Gary Shapiro, who is the president of CEA. We had a dude like him, very polished, very professional.
We had a guy like him. We would be in the nest. He's very polished and professional. Glad to see they're kind of jumping on board.
Did you watch the videos, Gene? I did watch some of them, not all of them. But yeah, my schedule has been a little tight with the holidays and all. But yeah, that's one of the things that we have been missing is an eloquent and well-spoken mouthpiece, if you will.
We tend to kind of bludgeon our way through it. Right, right. Well, you know, the guy's polished. We have a caller, and this caller was at the show.
Let's bring him on. And this is Mr. Kirby, is it not?
Yes, it is. Greetings, gentlemen. How are you today, sir?
I'm doing well. I'm doing well. I'm glad to hear you guys talking about this stuff. I didn't actually make CES because I was working, so I had to kidnap Patrick for dinner to kind of get the lowdown of it.
But yeah, I wanted to...I'm obviously preaching to the conductors of the choir before you guys got off the FAA stuff. But yeah, with the CES, it's clear that the drones are here and that the government is now five years behind or more and more. That's something for a newb. I've been in this two years, and it must be really frustrating for you guys because I see how frustrating it is for me just as all the new people getting in and covering the stuff that is just basically wrong.
They don't know the history of the Perkert case. They don't know the history that the federal judge got it right. And then the unelected bureaucrats turn that decision over. So yeah, it's got to be really frustrating for you guys who have been in this for a long time.
You know, we see a little bit of progress going forward just because of the masses is creating a momentum towards, okay, we're going to have to do something. But my confidence that something is going to be right is very low. Well, you had some insight. We did have dinner and an adult beverage with a burger.
And you know, you had some insight into the 333 thing. I've been hearing a lot of, let's say, opinion and insight about the 333 exemption. And why don't you go ahead and maybe, you know, you had some insight, so go ahead and why don't you share that and then I'll share mine. The 333 exemption.
Okay. Well, there's, you know, there's some several companies in Hollywood and now some real estateers who have got this 333 exemption. But a pilot license to fly a drone. You know, I'm coming at this strictly from the aerial cinematography realm, which is line of sight below 400 feet.
We use FPV as backup, you know, but and so that whole idea is absolutely absurd. You know, the most of a pilot's license education is about meteorological stuff. Well, I'm not flying from here to Phoenix. So when I have my meteorological knowledge needs to be since I have a five minute flight time, I walk outside and see if it's windy or rainy.
You know, so it's just seems to be an absurd thing. And these guys, instead of instead of getting behind Parker and getting behind some some legal fight against them to fight for our rights, they said, okay, we'll play along. And join your club because we think that we're going to get, you know, that you're going to give us special favors because of it. And I just don't think it's going to work out.
I think I think that what the certainly the aerial cinematography community should be doing is fighting for their idea that property rights extend a reasonable distance in the air and below 400 feet is not in the national navigable airspace. And the federal judge got it right. And the FAA has no jurisdiction. Well, all of that stuff is debatable.
And I mean, I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV and all the rest of that nonsense. But I will say, you know, somebody today or yesterday tweeted out there's like 200 plus drug lawyers in the United States. And, you know, there's people could take up the cause. You know, everybody's waiting for someone to step in with a boatload of cash and hire them to do it or what?
I don't know. Whatever. All I know is it's conceptually the 333 exemption. It's bizarre.
You know, they it's a statistics deal. Okay. So they come out and they say, well, you give them three gruntions to motion picture, which you can't even turn on the TV. If you watch cable TV, drones have been in your life for years.
You know, I think man has got a drone, you know, I don't have teeth, but I got a drone. Yeah. So we're conceptually we're talking about one zee, two zees when in reality what's out there is 10 zee, 20,000 zees. And, you know, it doesn't make any sense to me.
There is the safety of the NAS thing is a red herring. You can't you cannot say I mean, I talk to people at CES. Hundreds of thousands of these have been sold. You know, we're talking about where the FAA begged or lobbied NTSB to have jurisdiction over model aircraft.
Those are aircraft, too. There's what?
Yeah. 400,000 GA aircraft in the United States. And now you're talking about adding, let's say, another 800,000, 750,000 aircraft to your purview with no more money, no more manpower, no ideas. You know, what?
It's not going to work. It just will not work. And for people that sit there in the room when they sit there and, you know, the quasi-supposed advocates go, it's progress. Three people got, you know, it's not even frustrating or maddening.
Yeah, it's absurd. Yeah, the I mean, and plus the fact we need to put I wish that we could just sit down with them with some industry leaders and say and deal with the fear because they just have this big thing. Oh, well, because it's, you know, because drones could be used for evil. Well, anything can be used for it for evil.
Let's talk about the fears and how regulating a commercial, you know, making commercial use illegal is going to protect you from whatever you're afraid of. If you're afraid that some terrorist is going to try to fly a drone into the intake of a taking off jet or something like that, guess what?
No law you pass is going to stop it. So let's deal with the fears. Let's deal with the safety issues. I love the when I was at your expo last year, the first thing they brought up was a drone that went down in the crowd.
And mind you that, you know, things have come a long way in two years. The technology to pass the reliability is grown off the charts. So anyway, it's grown with down in the crowd. Two people were treated on the scene for cuts and abrasions.
But you know what the event was? The event was running as a bulls. 30 people went to the hospital participating in the event. And a couple of people were treated for scratching because the drone went down and now commercial use has banned because of that. Let's put things into perspective.
Thousands of people die in car crashes, yet we're still able to drive. So let's put the whole safety thing in perspective. And unfortunately, that perspective doesn't really translate to this because, you know, the FAA will come back and say, well, we don't regulate cars and we don't regulate whatever. We do aircraft.
But as far as the feelings go and assuaging people's misgivings and feelings, I say, you keep your feelings for Valentine's Day. I want to see scientific data. I want to see third party peer reviewed data. You know, that's what I want to see.
I don't want to hear any more excuses. I don't know if there's ways for the FAA to collect data. And it's called the GAA survey. I've only been talking about it for, you know, I don't know, five years.
The FAA, the people at the UASIO, nobody seems to know about it. But that is how they gather the data. It's the collection matrix to figure out the safety of the Nass. And I'm going to tell you right now, safety of the Nass numbers are made up.
It's all arbitrary horse crap. And it's made up on illegal operations, which they say they can't collect data on illegal operations. That's not true. The people in the UASIO are not, I'd say, fully informed of what's going on at the FAA.
But I'm not an expert. I'm just some guy out here. But anyway, that's what I want to see. I want to see hard numbers.
I don't care about anybody's feelings anymore. Feelings you can't. Right. And I don't want the data to be, I saw a drone in the distance, and we'll classify that as a near miss.
Well, there's a procedure for that. There is a procedure for that. I wrote a story about it. Now I know that all of the people that write about drones read my stories because I see my stuff in there.
I'm not tooting my own horn. Nobody touched it. There is a procedure that the FAA is supposed to enact where they get the tapes from the air traffic control, where they sequester the airplanes and the crews. It is already an outline deal.
There are already other documents and ways to collect this information. Yet the FAA chooses not to do it. So what is the problem?
Are we really concerned about the safety of the Nass? Are you concerned about sandbagging things?
I mean, I'd love to have the FAA on here and say, you know, how come you're not collecting this data? How come you're not collecting the safety data?
How come you're not collecting the data on near miss? What is going on over there?
And I'm not going to hear, or I don't want to sit here and hear, and I'm totally on the rant now, but I want to hear we don't have the money and the manpower. BS, this is what you're supposed to do. Do your job. Get the data.
Get these in the air. You can't tell me, and I'll ask both of you, and both of you as fair-minded people think that with hundreds of thousands of these flying around, all the near, supposed near miss, the hearsay, you think the Nass is a safer place than it would be if we had some common sense regulation for a lot of people to operate it. And I'll go to our guest first, Pat. What do you think?
Well, absolutely. We all want some common sense regulation. You know, they did their little safety video, you know, and that's, you know, with the 50 pound rabbit. Yeah.
Yeah. And that we would like to, minus the don't fly for money, which was to me the blaring thing that stuck out as, wait a minute, why not?
You know, if everything else is kind of common sense, don't fly to airports, don't fly to people, don't, you know, all of these common sense things, and then don't fly for money, well, why not? You know, there's a reason for that. But we'd love to see some regulations to that, to those effects. But common sense regulations, keep in mind that America was based on the principle that the government trusts the people, but the people don't trust the government.
Now we have the total flip side of that, where the government doesn't trust the people to do anything, and yet they want us to trust them with every action in our daily lives. And that's the opposite of what America was based on, and that really bothers me that no one's willing to stand up for that principle. Well, I think that there's, you know, there may be some gaps in the age thing that may account for that. But I will say, you know, in Rome, you know, the reference to the pyramids at Giza, how many Americans do you think have been in Egypt lately?
Yeah, especially the younger set. Probably not too many. Kind of dangerous. Can't really relate to that.
How about a roller coaster and a landmark in America that maybe these kids went on a family vacation and saw? I don't know, just saying. I don't know. The other thing is, is, you know, don't take money, but on the other hand, do take a lesson.
So you go to the AMA's website and people offer lessons and they charge. Yeah, you know, I mean, you know, the thing is, you know, you don't have to be a super genius. I don't think to figure all this stuff out. You just have to step back, take an objective look, get your mind out of the belt way and, you know, move forward.
Well, I'm going to give Gene a chance to comment on this. Put your foot in it, Gene. Go ahead. Me?
Yeah, yeah, the common sense rigs. I mean, we've been talking this for a long time. You know, you could really get me spooled up on this one and I won't because I know it's running kind of short on time. But, you know, there are easy ways to do it.
The AMA has been doing it for 50 years under AC 9157 and they've had what, like maybe one or two claims. That is an astounding safety record. So why can't we replicate it out there in the NAS using these small unmanned aircraft?
You know, again, emotion rules the day. That's all I got to say about that. Well, I'm going to add two things on that. You know, if one watches the videos from CES, you will see Rich Hansen stands up and he talks about, you know, RC hobby, which is now drone thing, aircraft.
And they've been around longer than manned aircraft. Okay. So this is well, you know, unmanned aircraft have been around since before manned aircraft. He sits down, Toscano gets up from ABSI and says that they came out of the military.
I want to jump up and start screaming. Are you, you know, what's wrong with people?
I see this narrative all the time. People that are supposed to be in the know. Oh, drones came out of the military. Really?
You know, because the whole air environment line came out of the hobby world. The Aeroson, you know, a lot of these, you know, tiger shark, I could go on and on came out of the hobby world used hobby components. And you're saying, you know, even even the, the history of the provider, the guy that built the net didn't think of it as a weapon. It was co-opted by the military.
They've co-opted this whole airspace integration effort. I have had people beat me up about that. No, no, the military's not leading the integration effort. Good thing it's a family program because I'm ready to yell BS on that one.
That's just not the case. The case is, is that the arc that's going on now is populated by DOD vendors. The ASTM chaired by a DOD vendor, the RTCA co-chaired by a DOD vendor, you know, the even now AVSI is on the arc. They take their marching orders from the diamond and platinum members.
They are a military, a pro military organization. And I guess I'm going to close with I have no confidence in anybody at this effort right now. And, you know, I mentioned that at CES, I had everybody come up to me and talk to me and ask me what I thought. And I just I'm telling everybody right now, no confidence.
Some groups are counterproductive to the cause. And I guess I'm going to leave it on that. Pet, our guest, if you have any last comments. I think that the commercial users are going to be safer than the people who just got their Phantom for Christmas and are out there trying it out.
You know, we're going to have insurance. We're going to have substantial investment involved in our in our craft and and so we're not going to let just anybody fly it. So I think that the regulations have it exactly backwards. And that and that there is I don't know what time we got, but I'll be quick.
If I throw a hammer into a crowd, there's a law against that. There's charges I can get. Just apply existing laws to drones. You don't need to do any kind of special thing.
If I if I climb over Miley Cyrus and spins, not her, someone else, but there's a law against that. You know, to take photographs, there's a laws against that. Just apply those to drones. Don't make special.
You don't need to make special considerations for it. And you don't need the FAA to govern the whole thing. Well, I concur with the notion that the commercial users probably going to be have more training insurance, things like that. The other notion that the hobbyist is safer, therefore should be allowed to fly anywhere is absurd.
And anybody that trots it out as far as I'm concerned makes themselves look stupid. There you go. And Gene, In closing, I know I pretty much I just lit a fire right there. But in closing, would you like to add anything, sir?
You know what I'd like to say is spring is coming up, guys. The weather is going to start getting good. Keep the stick back. Keep it sane.
Keep it safe. Sounds good. We're going to end it on that. Thank everyone.
Our next episode, I will say, is hopefully going to be with Professor Tony Dyson. If we can work this all out. He's the creative force. He built the R2-D2 robot and he's moved forward into super drones.
So stay tuned for that episode. And thanks again for being on there. Thanks, Pat, for coming on. And we'll talk to everyone later.
Thanks for having me. See you. Bye.